We Are Seriously Not Celebrating This Enough.

"Milky" (jordanmielke) 05/29/2015 at 10:58 • Filed to: Murica, Hellcat, P85D, Charger, Telsa, Dodge, Model S

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The fastest & quickest sedans are American. One is old school and is all about brute strength, the other is forward thinking and efficient.

The brute “goes like an angry drunken cannonball.”

The “rocket sled” has 687 lb-ft of torque from 0 rpm.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:02

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This picture is wonderful. Thank you.

505Turbeaux > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:02

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this guy is ejaculating in his pants

Jayhawk Jake > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:04

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This will be here soon too

America is knocking it out of the park in automobiles right now

Milky > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap 05/29/2015 at 11:05

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It needed just a bit more ‘murica.

nermal > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:06

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You missed one.

Milky > 505Turbeaux 05/29/2015 at 11:06

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Ha, good catch! I was too busy watching the lady’s reaction to notice his.

Party-vi > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:07

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Hard to believe the Tesla goes that quick when you look at the skinny tires.

Milky > nermal 05/29/2015 at 11:08

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Sorry but it can’t play with the big boys. Crazy to think its about 200hp shy of the Hellcat and P85D.

EDIT: 300hp …. damn.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:09

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It’s wonderful. I have a new one to add to the wallpaper rotation.

Milky > Jayhawk Jake 05/29/2015 at 11:12

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Weird saying its still down on power. I’d wager the hellcat will still have a higher top speed, but the V will go faster around a track.

spanfucker retire bitch > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:13

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Holy shit.

Milky > Party-vi 05/29/2015 at 11:14

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Guess thats all that torque from 0 rpm working. Makes you wonder what they could do with the same drivetrain in a sports car with over 1,000lbs less.

spanfucker retire bitch > 505Turbeaux 05/29/2015 at 11:14

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You mean he’s trying to. He can’t because of all the G’s.

scoob > Party-vi 05/29/2015 at 11:14

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Wonder what happens when you put wider or sticker tires on. Spin the earth the other way perhaps?

Milky > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap 05/29/2015 at 11:15

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Damn … I should have done it with a higher resolution!

nermal > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:15

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It’s also $20k less than the Charger and $60k less than the Tesla, and the only one available with a manual.

That right there is a real American bargain!

AM > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:19

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You have to remember that despite having less power, the CTS is loads lighter than the Hellcat is. And I think it's prettier.

AM > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:20

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Tesla is rated 687lb-ft of torque but on the Dyno it's like 864lb-ft.

Milky > spanfucker retire bitch 05/29/2015 at 11:22

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I know right?! Must mean its pulls over 1g forward for a while .

Milky > AM 05/29/2015 at 11:25

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Actually just checked their site and they have some numbers up, down about 5oolbs but they list top speed at 200mph flat.

Milky > AM 05/29/2015 at 11:26

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Well … dayyum …. that phone gif makes more sense.

AM > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:27

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So basically it won't take the title for fastest sedan but I have a feeling it will be much faster around the track.

Milky > nermal 05/29/2015 at 11:28

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I get your point, but its neither the fastest or quickest.

And looks like a Malibu, but thats a personal opinion.

spanfucker retire bitch > AM 05/29/2015 at 11:29

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I thought that was a measuring error because most dynos aren’t designed to ramp up to full speed so quickly? It causes slippage between the wheels and the machine from the videos that I’ve seen.

Milky > AM 05/29/2015 at 11:34

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Yea, the old CTS-V was the first sedan to break into the 7’s around the ring. Cadillac knows a thing or two about corners.

AM > spanfucker retire bitch 05/29/2015 at 11:35

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They got it to do 1 run without wheel slippage! They slowly got it up to speed then floored it.

AM > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:37

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The new one is 300lb lighter than the M5, and has an estimated 3.7 0-60 time which is almost a full second faster than the M5’s 4.5

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > nermal 05/29/2015 at 11:43

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The american e39 M5.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:45

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It's big enough for my computer

PilotMan > nermal 05/29/2015 at 11:46

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I have never seen one on the street or at a dealer and I’ll probably never see a unicorn with a manual transmission.

For Sweden > Party-vi 05/29/2015 at 11:48

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Saleen will put on fat tires and it will go faaaaaaaaaaaaast

For Sweden > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:48

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Legit dream garage right there you got

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:56

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Because:

Straight line speed bragging is like bragging that you can pee further than anyone else.

Dodge is owned by Fiat.

Nobody cares enough and they let us win.

Besides, when it comes to paying with your own money, you don’t want all the gimmicks of those cars. You would likely want more class...

Charisma...

...or wagon.

yamahog > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:57

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A little bird told me there’s no way Corvette people would ever allow a Cadillac to have a higher advertised speed. Actual? Meh.

TheHondaBro > Milky 05/29/2015 at 11:59

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Yes. I was in the D under full acceleration and it felt like gravity was going sideways.

TheHondaBro > spanfucker retire bitch 05/29/2015 at 12:00

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Okay, the D is insane.

DoYouEvenShift > Milky 05/29/2015 at 12:09

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Love it.

One is about brute power, pushrods, rear wheel drive, and supercharger noises.

The other is about electrons, all wheel drive, and silent performance.

DoYouEvenShift > Milky 05/29/2015 at 12:10

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Throw a Z06 and Raptor in that pic and call it perfection.

Milky > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 05/29/2015 at 12:11

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Besides the fact that you posted some slow or not real cars. When it comes to money the hellcat is waaayyy cheaper and the Tesla is pretty classy imo.

Milky > yamahog 05/29/2015 at 12:13

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Inner company politics ….. but how would the Z06 not have a higher top speed? W/O the z07 package it has to be slippery-er.

random001 > Milky 05/29/2015 at 12:20

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I like the article.

Now everyone stop saying “Electric car this or that has XXX Torque from 0 RPM.” Electric motors don’t work like that. First of all, it has 0 torque at 0 RPM, because the car is not moving. Once it starts moving, you are no longer at 0 RPM. Second, even if that statement weren’t patently false, you would need to say at 0 RPM, not from 0 RPM, because it starts to drop off as RPMs go up. Third, even if that statement weren’t patently false, the mathematics say that an electric motor would have infinite torque at 0 RPM, because the curve is asymptotic. It’s a discontinuity, or of infinite slope.

Just say it has XXX torques when you push the go pedal.

Jayhawk Jake > Milky 05/29/2015 at 12:21

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I think in a drag race it'll be close, since the CTS-V is lighter (I think)

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Milky 05/29/2015 at 12:23

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You have the Red and Blue. Now you need a bit of White.

Jayhawk Jake > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 05/29/2015 at 12:25

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Fuck all of those, give me a CTS-V.

It'll be faster than and just as nice as most of those

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Milky 05/29/2015 at 12:27

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Not so sure about the top speed... the last one did 198MPH, and this is 84HP up. It’ll be close.

Breakfast Burrito: The True Resident Burrito > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 05/29/2015 at 12:37

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Today I learned...

-Horsepower

-Torque

-Top Speed

-Acceleration

Are all gimmick and...

-”Class”

-”Charisma”

Are the sole factors to base a car purchase on.

Milky > random001 05/29/2015 at 13:10

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Completely honest, I thought it was weird every time I typed it. Thats what the Motor Trend guy said in the video though, so I just went with it.

But noted, won't do that again.

BigBlock440 > Breakfast Burrito: The True Resident Burrito 05/29/2015 at 13:10

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Lexus predator grille = “charisma”

Apparently

BigBlock440 > Milky 05/29/2015 at 13:13

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Not necessarily. The seat isn’t perfectly vertical, and there’s friction against the seat material and the phone cover helping to hold the phone up. I’m not saying it didn’t hit 1g, just that it doesn’t have to to have the phone stay there for a bit. It just has to get somewhat close.

Milky > Jayhawk Jake 05/29/2015 at 13:20

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It is lighter. Motor Trend got 3.7 from the hellcat and Cadillac says 3.7 … so it definitely will be close.

Milky > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 05/29/2015 at 13:20

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Well damn, I don't think really ever verify top speeds.

Milky > DoYouEvenShift 05/29/2015 at 13:22

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Would be cool. Fastest off road and fastest around a track …. maybe we’ll need a Viper ACR for the photo though.

random001 > Milky 05/29/2015 at 13:31

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I apologize, It looks like I'm taking that out on you. I'm not. I meant that for the media people. Hug it out?

Milky > BigBlock440 05/29/2015 at 13:42

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Ahh you’re right. Still a damn cool trick though.

Milky > random001 05/29/2015 at 13:44

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No worries, you were right, because race car.

But sure ….

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Milky 05/29/2015 at 14:13

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Yes, the Lambo falls in the “they don’t care enough to try(to build it)”, category.

The Tesla is not bad, but they still need to work on their attention to detail and overall premium experience. I guess that in a few years, they will be closer to the sweet spot.

And the only way the Dodge could be less subtle, is to be painted orange and have a confederate flag on the roof. If Dodge wants to be a modern performance brand, they need to draw inspiration from the Viper. Not from the 60’s.

BigBlock440 > Milky 05/29/2015 at 14:16

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Definitely still impressive

Milky > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 05/29/2015 at 14:30

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Think the lambo is more “we don’t have a platform to put this on and it would cost too much. Everyone likes SUVs right?”

Wont argue the Tesla, I very much like it. But not in love with the interior or exterior styling.

Considering Dodge had to stop taking orders on the Hellcats, the car/the car’s image is doing them just fine.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Breakfast Burrito: The True Resident Burrito 05/29/2015 at 14:41

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Numbers are important, but those are just half of the equation.

A car is a complete package and an experience. It needs to say something about itself, and about its driver. That’s why the Miata has a fan base, bigger than cars with 3 or 4 times more power. That’s why Alfa Romeo has devoted followers, even if they didn’t do a serious car in a couple of decades(excepting the 4C(and the 8C but that was really a Ferrari-Maserati combination). That’s why the LFA is so damn special.

Reducing a car to just its engine’s parameters is an incredibly narrow point of view. And I’m sure you understand that. But in this case, you just can’t get over the bias caused by being a Mopar fan.

Breakfast Burrito: The True Resident Burrito > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 05/29/2015 at 17:20

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Ok. I’m gonna write a wall of text partly to explain how wrong you are, but also because I’ve got nothing to do at work today and I haven’t done one of these in a long time.

[clears throat]

Alright so let’s get started with a car’s character. This is what I hope you mean when you mention a car’s “Class” and “Charisma” and when you claim a car “Needs to say something about itself.” All these are various subcategories within the car’s character. Personally, I like to think all cars have at least some character. This is because at its bare minimum, a car’s character can be found in the car’s intended purpose. Cheap cars can exhibit genius cost saving and engineering characteristics, performance cars obviously try to push the limits of performance given whatever other cost or comfort variables they also have to take into account, etc. Now obviously these are just baseline character traits, and more certainly come with time, communities, history, etc, but to say that only Alfas and Miatas and brown diesel wagons offer character is very short sighted.

That’s not to say that there aren’t bad characteristics in a car. Some cars will be so awful they are never loved, while a small minority are so awful that, with time, they are loved even more (see Alfa’s reliability problems). The problem is, manufacturers aren’t selling you the car after you learn to love its quirks, they’re selling you a car now. Because of this, it is best to gauge a car’s qualities based on what it is at the onset. One easy and relatively unbiased way to do this is to measure how well it fulfills it’s intended purpose. Even if the purpose is considered to be undesirable or, at the very least, not your thing, if the car meets its purpose with flying colors, at least one could appreciate achieving such a feat. Let’s look at the Hellcat. Dodge already makes bargain and performance Chargers, so the Hellcat was intended to be the most powerful, most insane, and most cost effect performance sedan on the market. Now I’d say that purpose is pretty damn epic so it wins character points for me at the onset, but even if you want to poke your prude nose up in the air and scoff at the mythical god that lay before you, you can at least appreciate the sheer achievement that they accomplished.

“Oh but you can never use all that power, its a gimmick, blah, blah, I’m an entitled JDM and Euro-snob, blah.” Wrong. You wanna know what’s a gimmick? Slapping a Mercedes emblem on an A class is a gimmick. Selling a CLA for $30K with about as much luxury as a Chrysler 200 is a gimmick. All this “class” and “charisma” that car companies keep telling you they have as they sell you inferior cars is a gimmick. Horsepower is something that can be measured. It is something that can make a car perform better and physically be used. Who care’s if you can’t use it everyday? Does a Mercedes or BMW ooze class everyday a frat-bro drives it to 711 in a wife-beater?

“Oh but the class is part of the car’s character. Yesss so much character from all that understatement. YASSS.” Yeah well you know what’s part of the Hellcat’s character? Intense styling, insane engineering, an affordable price point, and a community of performance enthusiasts that give a big “Fuck you” to Europe and Japan with every glorious tire burnout. Now, at this point you have probably decided you don’t like badass cars at affordable prices, and would rather spend your time looking up pictures of “high class luxury” cars on google (because we all know none of us can afford any of these). That’s fine. You are free to appreciate whatever kind of car suits you. What makes you look like a real nimrod though, is trying to piss on the awesome achievements of others and comparing cars with completely different purposes just because these cars don’t suite your much more cultured tastes.

Guess what. The Hellcat has character. It offers an experience like no other. It says a metric shit-ton about itself and the driver whether it’s parked or zooming down a drag strip. It’s not a hollow echo of the 60’s and it isn’t supposed to be subtle. It is a modern masterpiece of engineering and balls-out insanity that cannot compete with the Germans or Japanese only because it can’t be bothered to slow down for them.

At this point, if you’re still reading, you’ve probably got me labeled as a flag-waving ‘Murica man who’s living in the past. After all, I am blinded by all that “Mopar bias” right? The real reason why I liked Mopar in the first place was because they were the only major American manufacture that was taking engineering risks in the late 50s through the 70s. Above all else, I enjoy progress in the auto-industry. Everything I said about the Hellcat; every comment about character and achievement, should be doubled for the Model S. The model S is an American luxury car that is pioneering what could very well be the future of the car. But when Tesla saw the future, they didn’t just see a sleek efficient people-transport, they also saw a badass 4wd, 691Hp monster too. An electric monster that could use many of the performance advantages of electric drive to make it the quickest grocery-getter in the world. All of this while being encapsulated in a quiet, luxurious cabin. The P85D is a do-anything Swiss army knife miles ahead of anything this generation has produced that can also prove that the United States is still the land where opportunity is born. Sure, it has its downsides, but for what it is and for what it does, the P85D is truly a masterpiece of an achievement. It’s character shows us an optimistic look at the future of our industry. It served its purposed like grandmas serve lemonade.

When I look at the pictures you posted, all I see is compromises and laziness. Derivative design from Audi, a Lambo that doesn’t exist yet, and “Performance” cars that try fill every purpose while being mediocre at all of them (comparatively obviously). When I look at the Hellcat and the Tesla, I have hope that future classics will be as epic as the dinosaurs of the old days. When that day comes, we’ll know which cars truly had the most character.

Your boy, BJR > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 05/29/2015 at 20:27

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Shut the fuck up about imports being so much better than American cars. It’s fucking old. I used to FUCKING HATE American cars, but after going out and experiencing about 95% of cars sold in the U.S. In the past 10 years, I became a domestic fan. Why? No country has automobiles as ingrained as a part of their culture as the U.S., and it shows in there cars. fuck, man, we INVENTED factory styling. America makes, the world takes. Why else would brands like VW and Hyundai want to be more “Americanized”. So next time you think about opening your mouth about “character” and “charisma”, stop and remember who gave that to cars in the first place.

Wagons are ugly and lame, by the way.

wafflesnfalafel > Milky 05/29/2015 at 22:34

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That gif of the cel phone stuck to the back seat is awesome - the ultimate crazy uncle car. “Now Bobby, if you can grab this hundred dollar bill taped to the dash before we get to 100 you get to keep it. And don’t tell your mother about this.”

mr2gud2u > Breakfast Burrito: The True Resident Burrito 05/30/2015 at 00:13

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Oppo is not exactly the place for MOPAR love. In fact no one talked about the LX platform until the Hellcat arrived. I own a first generation LX SRT8. Its not an M5, and it was never meant to be. I love it and I don’t expect most oppo's to get that.